Thursday, December 07, 2006

H-E-double hockey sticks

I apologize for how long this is (4 pages in Word) but I have to say, this is some of the most eye-opening stuff I’ve come across in a while. Frankly, I think if you’ll read this, it will blow you away. If it doesn’t, let me know and I’ll make sure you get a copy of the message. That’s how strongly I feel about the impact this can have on our understanding of hell. Even if you do read it and think you get what I’m trying to say, if you still want the sermon, I’ll get it to you. Redeemer’s stuff is copyrighted, so you can pay for a copy on their website or I can share my copy with you. Also, I wrote a lot of this last night and didn’t have my notes, so I reserve the right to clarify once I can look over it again.

Maybe if I thought about it, I could come up with something that bothers me more than the doctrine of hell. But right off, I can't. I've passed the point of trying to explain it into something non-existent - for awhile, I was chasing Stott's view of annihilationism but I didn’t try real hard because deep down, I knew I couldn’t back it up without contradicting Scripture.

I guess lately, I’ve been focused on the fact that our own personal, or cultural, understanding surely isn’t perfect. Everyone has a sense of right and wrong, and that is initiated by God at birth (part of being made in the image of God) and therefore, part of it points us to the truth, and then there’s the other part – that which deviates from God’s system of justice. A fundamental belief in the goodness of man would have a radical impact on that, but there are also shades of gray; legal or cultural or experiential things that affect our view of life and consequentially, our view of right and wrong. More particularly to this issue, our view of punishment that should fit the crime.

For most, It’s there and hopefully being worked, molded to resemble more of God’s perfect justice. We might take the approach, “This word from God doesn’t line up with my own thoughts on just punishment.” What to do? Where someone would err, would be to take that problem, and ‘fix’ the God side, (like I mentioned I have tried to do many times) versus taking the high, and much more difficult road, of reconciling one’s ethic to match the Biblical one. T’ain’t easy and it doesn’t cut it to oversimplify with triteness and a dismissive, “They get what they deserve.” Our fellow man, the issue, and God, deserve more reflection.

Anyhoo, I am listening to the wise sage Tim Keller go through a series in which he addresses doctrines that radically conflict with the 21st century western worldview, particularly those doctrines that receive disdain from the cosmopolitan community. (New York is his audience but certainly applicable to us). They’re all amazing and if you’ve heard the man, you know I am not exaggerating. He has this gift (only word that suffices) of meshing sound, solid Bible and tremendous scholarship on the highest level, with post-modern, city-fied, and very current thought. He understands them both to a tremendous degree. He talks of absolutism and exclusivity, concepts that are despised by the free world. And he has this way of making sense of it all. Who has the balls to include Hell as one of these? Keller of course. I hope you find this as helpful as I do (and I’ve only listened to a little over half, so maybe I’ll do a Part Deux, if there is interest.)

Typical three part sermon (yeah right) and those three parts are in response to the premise, “Without an understanding of the Doctrine of Hell, you can’t fully…”
1. understand your own heart.
2. have peace
3. know the love of God.
I’ll discuss the first point and some intro and assuredly, get off on a tangent or two.

How do you reconcile a loving God with eternal Hell? That’s the question as plain as can be. Keller says, people often ask if he believes in the literal hellfire and brimstone and he suggests that this is NOT literal. Sort of whets the appetite, but I knew where he was going because Sproul and many others say the same. The shoe drops: the firey Hell is probably a metaphor, but because language falls well short of a true description and we're dealing with the metaphysical in discussing the after-life (Rex Justice's account not withstanding :). Actual hell is infinitely worse.
TEXT: Lazarus and the rich guy. Here’s a link.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2016:19-31;&version=31;

Ever noticed that they don’t name the rich guy by name? I never noticed and even if I had, I wouldn’t have thought much about it. Lazarus has a NAME with God, an identity in God and rooted in the things of God. The rich guy? His identity is in his status and wealth. This defines the man. Can anything be more applied to America today and the prevailing icon of the self-made man? I instantly thought of the "eye of the needle" passage and many other illustrations on the same subject. Namely, that it is so hard for prosperous, well adjusted people to see the need for redemption. One of those tangents and I'll have to put the brakes on that one, because that gets into Jebo's "the one sermon you would preach" for me. By the way, as a Baptist you should know the answer. Its “whatever God told me to that morning.” Joking.

Keller is a big fan of the great 19th century philosopher, Soren Kierkegaard. (looking now at his bibliography, he also wrote something called “Christ’s Judgment on Official Christianity”, which intrigues the hell out of me [pun]) In his book, “The Sickness Unto Death”, SK defines sin as placing anything at all before God. I think Keller says this in every sermon because it applies to everything, and in addressing his audience, especially good things.

A Toom tangent again but not to be missed: assessing ‘goodness’ is tricky business. I happen to think all Christians hold to the doctrine of Total Depravity. (a radical inclination toward sin such that you are not capable of pure goodness) Most Reformed people (and this hell thing isn’t really about that) would say the Total Depravity isn’t a great description because it implies that man will choose the worst option all of the time. The worst people in history, Hitler for example, didn’t even do this. What it really says, is man is incapable of doing good at any time, apart from God. There is relative good and people can debate this, but what I mean by saying that I think all Christians believe this, is when you define good properly. We look at goodness in relative terms.

Killing someone because you enjoy killing them ... 0% good
Killing someone because they have wronged you ... 1%
Killing someone because they have killed someone else ... 20%
Lying in order to save yourself embarrassment ... 40%
Giving money to a charity because it makes you feel good ... 80%
Preaching, singing in church ... 70%
Singing in church if you're John Daker ... 0%

All of these will obviously vary according to how much selfishness is involved, just giving examples of what could be.

The ONLY things that are 100% good are those things done with a gratitude for God and a desire to please him. Further, the ONLY way this is possible is when we live by the Spirit. And the Bible is clear in that, we don’t have that ability unless God reveals himself to us, redeems us from our nature, and allows us to live in the Spirit, through the vehicle of Christ’s righteousness, HIS nature. Hopefully, in this context, you understand and agree with what I said about everyone believing in “Total Depravity.” If not, let me know and I'll try to make it more clear.

Those without God reject God in everything they do. How can I say that after I’ve allowed for relative goodness? Because relative goodness don’t cut it in God’s eyes. This is an illustration from God of his HOLINESS!!! God wants us to know Him, and knowing Him involves not just being acquainted with love, but also holiness. Isaiah understood this, Paul understood this. Hopefully I haven’t lost you if you’ve read this far, but the ultimate point here is…

If something has to be motivated by a love for God in order to be considered good AND...
If God’s standard of goodness is perfect goodness without any blemish AND...
If God has to grant us Christ’s nature in order for us to even be capable of this THEN...
Apart from God, there is no good in us.
Again, this is NOT a discourse on Reformed theology but has a deep connection with where I’m going on the Hell thing. Hold that thought as I try to get back on track.

So Kierkegaard and Keller team up and are joined by CS Lewis on this definition of sin. Remember, “Placing anything at all before God”. Those who don’t place God first have other things and for the rich guy in the parable, those things were status and wealth. It should be explicitly noted here that given he was a Jew, HE COULD NOT HAVE HAD STATUS AND WEALTH WITHOUT BEING SOMEWHAT RELIGIOUS! Very important as in the eyes of his contemporaries and probably, if we saw his life on paper as a series of actions, our view would not be negative at all. It could be anything of course, relationships, kids, spouse, all “good” things that would score north of 50% on our chart, but certainly wouldn’t meet God’s standard of good.

SK/Keller then talk about these sins and them actually being addictions. In fact that we’re all addicts. Whatever you struggle with, is an addiction for you. This is some of the most brilliant part of the sermon and hard for me to properly explain but the point of it is to show the human condition as such and Keller says, in a bit of irony, that the Christian life, indeed the human life, is managing and putting out fires. The unregenerate spend time serving their addictions and putting out fires that threaten the addiction or perhaps, in glimpses of recognition that this “thing” is getting out of control, they attempt to manage the very addiction as well. Does that sound so very, very sad to anyone? The Christian life, to be sure, is no picnic because he is also putting out fires, trying very, very hard (hopefully) to put the fires out which push him away from HIS addiction – following God. This is an addiction to be cultivated, indeed the only one that should be. And it is not a natural one in the flesh, only in Christ, requiring spiritual discipline and effort to keep the addiction going. If this sounds counter-intuitive, following God is an addiction in the spirit, something that can't be avoided, but in the flesh, it is not something we want at all. Exactly why we should be on guard to live just that way so that our past nature doesn't rule the roost, Christ's nature will take over, and we'll naturally be inclined toward God, even addicted to God.

And the hallmark of addiction in the flesh is a misunderstanding of self. Ultimately, the loss of self in the addictions which have come to define self. (in the parable, the rich guy) Godly addiction would be the opposite of that and in one of those weird, poetic moments, it actually is the only way to find self and know self in objective truth!!! (see yourself as others who know you see you, and as God sees you) To die to self is to trash the broken, sinful, addicted self, to know yourself and to become yourself in Christ ... the self that God designed and recognizes!!! Isn't that great!!! Dang, that's good. If you don't think it is, I obviously didn't explain it well - let me know. Precisely why the parable mentions Lazarus by name. He's in touch with God and thus, in touch with self. He knows who he is. The rich guy lost so much of self that he truly no longer was himself and God doesn't know the name of this distorted person, because he has no name - only that his sin defines him. His new name is "rich guy" as defined by his addiction.

It doesn't get any better than that, but it also falls under the category of "the foolishness of the gospel". You deny the state of your self, then, if you realize something of the self, you blame others for your problems or condition (back to denial again), and finally, you live in despair and total isolation, embracing this new self because it is all you know. The rich guy in the parable implies that it is someone else’s fault, that had he known, he wouldn’t be in torment and would’ve followed God. Yet the parable is clear, “'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' Chilling isn’t it?

I saw the silly movie "Click" the other night. You probably know the premise - guy is consumed with his career, a good thing, doesn't have enough time and he begins skipping past parts of his life using a magic remote control. The remote is a fabulous tool that solves all his time issues. Then, it begins to take over, skipping stuff that he doesn't want to skip, only stopping at the next step in the corporate ladder. Soon, the guy is old, and dies, having missed all of it. His body was at all the birthdays, Christmas, vacations, but he wasn't there. The remote, once the answer to all his problems, became hated, and he couldn't get rid of it. Instead of using it to manage his life, it took control and destroyed him. He says to the magic guy, "I didn't want to miss all that". And the guy says, "yeah, actually you did. The remote knows your desires and patterns and works accordingly." Had he never had the remote, he still would have been absent from that stuff, fast-forwarding to the next big career moment ... HIS addiction.

Now here is where it gets good. (I know, it only took 4 pages) Based on CS Lewis but I paraphrase because I don’t have it in front of me. If we don’t believe in eternity, we will live life quite differently. These little tendencies toward impatience or misanthropy or whatever don’t need dealing with if I live 80 years, in fact, they may not ever grow enough to even be realized. BUT, if I see life as eternal, what will these things look like in a million years, if they continue to grow???!!! You’re a little jealous? Unchecked by the gospel, what will that jealously develop into? Need to work on temper? In a million years, your anger will consume and define you. A bit cynical? I don't even want to think about that one.

Lewis goes on. The door to hell is locked from the inside. What of the iconograph depicting people clawing to get out? That is not correct. Hell is all these addictions, all this sin, taken to their fulfillment. You are in a constant state of all your weaknesses being heightened to their fullest extent. You’re in ultimate denial that they are there in the face of horrifying manifestations of them. You’re in a state of blaming something else for them to the nth degree. You’re in total and complete and utter isolation and it is eternal. You're Daker and you think you're Pavarotti.

I don’t know about you but this seems worse than any physical torment flames or fire can conjure. It is mental anguish, unalterable and irreversible. It is hell, and hell, a very personal and deep and all-consuming FIRE that can not be extinguished. A focus on the physical is what we’re about, we talked about goodness already and said that God doesn’t really care what’s being done but rather about the motivation. We know that the church is obsessively distracted and preoccupied with outward actions being the mark of the man versus dealing with man’s sinful condition that is wholly internal. Hell, heaven are no different. We will exist continually, in the spiritual realm. The physical is so trite and irrelevant by comparison. Anyone who has ever been ‘down’ and they think through all the physical blessings they have and wonder why they’re depressed KNOWS this, inherently. Why do you think celebrities and wealthy people are seemingly miserable? Because the physical has so very little to do with it. The condition of the inner man, that is what we’re talking about and I think what is going on in hell.

So OK, Toom, I thought you were going to explain hell so that we can reconcile it in light of God’s love. Lewis does this so well, I think. Again, I have to paraphrase.

What do you want Him to do? Forget that we ever sinned? Forgive everything we’ve done so far and give us a fresh start? Intercede in dealing with our addictions and help us to stop their development? OK, he has done that and more in the person of Christ, and at a great cost to himself! Or do you want Him to simply leave you alone? Yes, he can do that, too, if that is your wish.

There you have it. That is hell. Period. Giving man his cherished and treasured free will. We want it so badly. We want freedom and autonomy and achievement and God to turn us loose so we can be all that we can be. With apologies to the US Army marketing department, that will reach a tragic and horrible and unfathomably devastating end. Yes, perhaps on earth, but most assuredly in eternity when God ceases to provide even a common grace to your life. Our selves are wickedly predisposed such that, left to our own machinations, every deed we do, every thought we have, every inclination, will apart from God’s saving grace, even his commongrace which prevents the current earth from slipping into chaos, devolve into a hellish existence where every deed, even those that once had a percentage of ‘goodness’, will be raw and radically evil.

To those who don’t know Christ, they get exactly what they want, and it is now clear to me, that even in that state, they will not call for God. They may in fact not even know that their life ever ended, such will be the extent of the disconnect. They'll know it intellectually maybe and they may call out to God, blaming Him for their fate, but certainly not in full realization and thinking that they would choose glory if it were offered. They wouldn't. We assume that hell comes and so comes awareness that they've rejected the Creator and there will be that knowledge, just as there is now, that they are not in harmony with Him. And yet still, the denial and the blame shifting will continue. They will lack awareness of self even more than ever, to the extent that like the rich guy, even their very identity has disintegrated. No awareness, no identity, no desire to change. Hell, indeed.

5 comments:

Chunky A said...

Very interesting. Certainly worth thinking about...but like everything else that is "blurry" in the Bible...to say that "THIS IS IT" or "I HAVE FINALLY FIGURED IT OUT" is pretty foolhardy. Not that I think you are saying these two things, Tommy, but we all need to be careful of something that all of a sudden seems so logical that we quit "thinking" about it anymore.
Two comments-
1) Interesting thing that I discovered in Israel that I haven't shared yet...but you reminded me of it with the "camel through the eye of the needle" comment.
As it turns out, farmers in Israel have a huge door for their barnes...large enough for a camel to walk through. Something like 9 or 10 feet tall, about 6 or 7 feet wide. Really big. Built into that door is a much smaller door that the farmer would use. Only about 4 feet tall...about 2 or 3 feet wide, which would allow him to walk through without a chance of animals getting out. They built the doors for that practical reason, but also for another one. When the farm was under attack, the larger door could be barracaded and intruders would have to walk through the smaller door to check for occupants. When they did, the farmer would be standing inside the door with a sword, and cut the head off the man ducking into the small frame. Very practical...but also a great word picture that the common man would understand when Jesus said....like a camel passing through the eye of the needle.

2) The Daker comments were priceless and should go down in history as some of your greatest metaphorical references of all time.

Diesel.

Toom said...

AC - "THIS IS IT" or "I HAVE FINALLY FIGURED IT OUT"

Semper Reformanda - Always Reforming; The way to glorify God is by holiness - by reformation. We can never be complacent on account of what God has already done in our lives and among us, but rather we must be ever seeking further influence and refinement by the Holy Spirit that we may become holy.

So I agree, never assume you have it all figured out. Always be willing to reassess your personal theology. Yet, God does things in our lives, reveals his truth to us in ways that lead to growth. A failure to acknowledge that and not take what you learn and apply it to your body of knowledge means you never grow at all. You end up with a bunch of theories and no conclusions.

AC - we all need to be careful of something that all of a sudden seems so logical that we quit "thinking" about it anymore.

I couldn't do that if I tried. I like to put stuff out there for critique, develop, then develop some more. And further, you learn something about God, place it in context with everything else you believe to be true about God and try to make sense of it all. I didn't really think the logic was as compelling as the way this sermon illustrates hell as spiritual over the physical.

I particularly had in view those (myself included) who have difficulty with an intellectual reconciliation of hell and I thought the sermon did that beautifully. For anyone without difficulty in this area, I doubt it would mean much.

I heard a self-help guy say the other day, "We need to quit thinking of ourselves as physical beings with a spiritual side but spiritual beings with a brief physical experience." I thought that was pretty good.

I heard Richard Lee, of all people give that same illustration of the eye of the needle. Must've been years ago and I didn't remember all the details.

Thanks for the response.

Chunky A said...

Like I said in my earlier response...I didn't think you were saying that you had it all figured out...but I was making the general statement (to all who read this thing) to be careful in doing so.

With that said, I do have a bit of a problem with either Heaven or Hell being a completely spiritual place. I believe both to be physical places where we will walk and talk and eat, etc.
When Jesus returned to earth in His new body (already transformed) people didn't recognize him because he looked different, but could hear Him and touch Him all the same...and recognized Him from those things. Therefor I believe that we too will have a physical body, just different from what we have now. That also only makes sense considering that we will spend at least part of our time here on earth (granted, it too will be different) which is a physical place. AC

Toom said...

Yeah, I'm not sure about the "entirely physical" thing either. Yet I don't see a connection with 'if Jesus came back and was flesh, it stands to reason that we will be somewhat flesh in eternity' because that was still here on earth and a big chunk of the resurrection was to validate His power over death. In order to do this, he needed to physically 'be' again. But, the wholly spiritual thing is problematic to me because without SOME element of the physical, how will physical praise and other communication take place? I have no 'earthly' idea. I think the angels, other heavenly creatures must have some type of physical characteristics. I don't see it as a "state of mind" and I do think whatever physical/spiritual makeup there is, it is probably other-dimensional and we wouldn't be able to articulate it now, anyway. I view heaven like, the best possible life you can think of plus things you can not imagine and so, whatever works out, I'm good.

No matter - what I really think is key is that our perspective is so physical. While God certainly grants us our needs and sometimes wants, I think this is a major problem and wasteful preoccupation. Randy said Sunday, if you could have more of anything, what would that be? And his answer: grace. For me and I'm sure others, that highlights a preoccupation with the physical because I imagine most would not see things like that. I think of God hearing the typical Christian pray and wonders a) why are you asking for such simple, physical, and comparitively meaningless things? and b) how can they not recognize that even on this earth, the spiritual brings joy far beyond what the physical can.

The focus on physical leads some to think about Holiness in this way. A guy may have the most wicked heart there is and yet, people look at that person and they see him doing all the right things on the outside. He sins privately and over time, destroys himself, and we wonder how it was possible for someone so good could suddenly go so bad. Or we try to help people by talking about behavior. Do this, do that teaching that gets you nowhere. The heart, or more accurately, the Spirit is what needs attention.

I also think there is a connection to the fact that we sin "in the flesh" and when we're "in the Spirit" we are righteous. Leads me to think that the after-life will negate or greatly reduce the physical.

jeebs said...

Good discussion. In Luke, poor Lazarus sees the rich man in torment across the chasm and every indication is given that whatever else might be in play, it is indeed physically painful. Not only does he request someone to return from the dead to warn his brothers, but for himself he asks that a drop of water be placed on his tongue for relief. Very physical. Beyond the physical, I believe the greatest horror is the hopelessness and godlessness. Despair and doom without end.

Rather than rejecting the physical, I believe it is our values that will be shattered and brought in proper perspective. There may indeed be streets of gold and gates of pearl, yet the message the really jumps out to me is that the most precious and most prized things in this world or as mundane as asphalt and brick in heaven. While we will be surrounded by treasure in heaven, the true Treasure of heaven is God. All the gold and fine jewels cannot make heaven, for only He gives real value to all things.